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 Post subject: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:59 am
Posts: 1847
Here comes the change log from what I could gather from my memory and our done entries in the todo. Change tracking wasn't very accurate this time, so chances are plenty of minor things changed in addition to what's listed below!

- items: shield tweaks, can now stop one blast, others protected by the shield will remain unharmed and shield user himself gets stunned, shield becomes consumed
- items: remote detonable sticky C4 added
- items: impact grenade added, impact grenade is better against vehicles, hand grenade is better against soldiers
- items: complete faction specific weapon sets.. meaning plenty of new weapons
- items: M16 made into full auto and as Green assault rifle
- items: all weapons gone through some rebalancing
- items: M79 grenade launcher added
- items: certain items are no longer auto-obtained at respawn to avoid RP drainage, also the ones that are, are purchased with 50% fill
- vehicles: turret rotation sounds
- vehicles: can have any amount of protectors allocated for them
- vehicles: some visuals improved
- vehicles: static cover cars in maps have now changed into destroyable movable cars
- vehicles: some physics bugs fixed, some known issues still exist
- vehicles: steering and sliding handling improved
- vehicles: park brake state in vehicles removed, instead, armored truck made player-only vehicle i.e. AI doesn't spawn there nor does AI use it
- vehicles: transport truck added
- vehicles: patrol ship added
- vehicles: rubber boats and tanks made faster
- vehicles: can be driven over cliff edges now
- vehicles: get declared broken if tilted on side now
- calls: new artillery sounds, artillery specific ground effect settings
- gameplay: medic presence in player's squad is indicated at right bottom corner
- gameplay: spotting vehicles gives target specific rewards
- gameplay: quick pickup priorities tweaked: valuables and rares first, then any item types fit for empty slots, generally grenades, secondaries, primaries, in that order
- gameplay: item drop amount when dying tweaked
- gameplay: ability to make call requests when wounded
- gameplay: ability to commit suicide when wounded - hold stab for 3 seconds
- gameplay: radio tower static target added, present in certain maps; basically functions similar to comms truck, just static, can take more damage and has more protectors
- AI: back and forth jumping comms truck driver issue fixed
- AI: AI is now able to take over a vehicle properly again
- AI: AI doesn't attack with grenades against an occupied enemy vehicle if it's flagged as not meant to be destroyed, i.e. cargo trucks
- AI: AI attacks with bazookas too against an own vehicle if it's stolen by an enemy even if it's not meant to be destroyed, i.e. cargo trucks
- AI: mortar usage tweaked, is more frequent now
- AI: final base attack tweaked
- campaign: "peaceful last base" feature removed from KOTH maps
- campaign: "overtime" feature added to KOTH maps; losing faction(s) get their capacity set to 0 when the match gets close to an end
- campaign: adventure mode enabled for single player or locally hosted campaigns, extraction points are now used to travel between maps
- campaign: "peaceful last base" feature extended with boosted attack on the faction with 1 base
- campaign: radio chatter tweaked a bit, still heavily work in progress
- campaign: armories no longer request enemy weapon deliveries, instead briefcases can be delivered to gain unlocks to weapons otherwise unavailable
- campaign: cargo truck deliveries are rewarded with weapon unlocks in addition to RP
- campaign: unlocks expire in 1 hour of game time
- campaign: KOTH maps now use constant amount of soldiers, regardless of how many bases have been captured
- campaign: the specific armory for item deliveries is now marked on the map
- visuals: fallen tree have roots pointing out now
- visuals: map appearances have gone through a hefty amount of tweaking
- visuals: dynamic effect layer now renders properly over decals and platforms
- visuals: utility posts with more hanging lines
- visuals: gore level option added in menu
- UI: inventory UI revamp, LMB to equip an item, RMB to drop (move to world) or store (move to backpack)
- UI: map view revamp
- UI: new squad icon, specific images for each squad fill status
- optimization: batch count reduced
- optimization: water rendering is shutdown more accurately now
- optimization: leaky HUD panels in views fixed
- optimization: CPU side optimizations for vehicles
- optimization: characters no longer included in post processing
- modding: character configs are out with first batch of parameters; includes most of character state adjust values, default animations, AI/automatic dialogue
- modding: amount of RP distributed to bots exposed
- modding: hotkey support added, there are 5 hotkey slots in key config, hotkey content (custom script messages with aim positioning data, taunts, smilies..) can be defined in %appdata%\Running with rifles or per mod, ask more on the forum
- modding: script can now spawn any dynamic instance, character, weapon/grenade/carry_item, vehicle, anywhere with any initial velocity
- modding: randomize_respawn_items keyword added to start_game
- modding: script can now plant any item in character's backpack or stash
- general: radio chatter about possible neutral faction removed
- online: others can no longer join as enemies in hosted campaign
- sounds: new ambient sounds for most maps, with added specific sounds for alerted states, i.e. less bird chatter


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 Post subject: Re: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 9:57 pm
Posts: 138
Am I disappointed or just spoiled?

During the hiatus between 0.92 and 0.93 I've almost exclusivey played the WorldWar mod for RWR, for a total of about 40 hours.

I was very excited to hear 0.93 was finally realeased and dove right in today. After 3 hours of fighting in Stalemate, I can't say I'm too thrilled with the state of the game. Guns feel super weak (people don't die from 5 bullets at point blank range anymore?) and inaccurate (Dragunov is less accurate than a G36 when crouched?).

HOWEVER, I don't know whether this is because the guns have actually been 'retweaked' or whether I've been spoiled by months of the deadly-bullets/accurate-weapons mindset of the excellent WorldWar mod. The vanilla game just feels wrong now, but I don't know whether I've been spoiled by the mod or that the game has actually changed for the worst (which I doubt).

All I know is that I'll probably run the mod again if a few hours into 'adventure mode' or the campaign won't cure my ails.

What are your thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:59 am
Posts: 1847
Visionhunter wrote:
Am I disappointed or just spoiled?

During the hiatus between 0.92 and 0.93 I've almost exclusivey played the WorldWar mod for RWR, for a total of about 40 hours.

I was very excited to hear 0.93 was finally realeased and dove right in today. After 3 hours of fighting in Stalemate, I can't say I'm too thrilled with the state of the game. Guns feel super weak (people don't die from 5 bullets at point blank range anymore?) and inaccurate (Dragunov is less accurate than a G36 when crouched?).

HOWEVER, I don't know whether this is because the guns have actually been 'retweaked' or whether I've been spoiled by months of the deadly-bullets/accurate-weapons mindset of the excellent WorldWar mod. The vanilla game just feels wrong now, but I don't know whether I've been spoiled by the mod or that the game has actually changed for the worst (which I doubt).

All I know is that I'll probably run the mod again if a few hours into 'adventure mode' or the campaign won't cure my ails.

What are your thoughts?


My personal impression is that while you might be on to something about effectiveness of some weapons, I don't think it's quite that different from 0.92. The balance tweaking went from side to side between 0.92->0.93, during which I was disappointed too myself at the condition of assault rifles, mainly M16 and G36. It felt I couldn't hit anyone whether I used single shots, bursts or full auto. After that it went back to taking G36 80% back to what it was in 0.92, M16 a tiny bit less than that, with the intention that Grey faction would have the best AR out there, Green the second, Brown coming last.

I consider my progression and experience in campaign fairly ok, it fluctuates between easy and rather hard, but what I consider ok might not be same for others. I seem to harvest a G36 or IMI Negev whenever I come across one, which also makes me respawn with random Green weapon available for my rank which I like. I also unlocked L85A2 at some point which became my favorite weapon for the time being, hardly a surprise as it's a bit better than other stock rifles.

I've lost about 3 rare weapons, at least Benelli and F2000, for foolish mistakes, serves me right actually. Still got a Vintorez stashed for that moment when I want to lose that too. I find myself using quite a lot of mortars, even a few artillery strikes, given the overall easier RP income, also something I consider being better than previously. I'm obviously talking about campaign here only, and I've yet to complete Insular Complex, Sainte-Anne and Frostbite, I'm just below 5k XP, having spent 5.5 hours on it.

I hope more people will post their experiences with the weapons, I keep thinking that it wouldn't hurt much if they were made a bit more effective, perhaps making them even better than in 0.92. At least your thoughts seem to support that it was the right call not to keep that one balance situation we had, which was even more unforgiving as it currently is.


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 Post subject: Re: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:11 am
Posts: 46
Excellent - very excited about this release and the future of RWR.

With that said, questions:

Will the AI eventually call in Humvees?

Does the AI drive the new boats?

Can you tell us any more about your plans for the AI using sandbags? I'm really curious about what their logic will be for those. Sounds really cool.

Thanks - keep up the good work!


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 Post subject: Re: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Posts: 1847
General Chaos wrote:
Excellent - very excited about this release and the future of RWR.

With that said, questions:

Will the AI eventually call in Humvees?

Hmm, haven't at least thought that they would. The vehicle drops have been considered to be just player assisting features.

Quote:
Does the AI drive the new boats?

Yes, they should use the patrol ships - I haven't tested it much myself as I've been off map5 for the most part, JackMayol should know better.

Quote:
Can you tell us any more about your plans for the AI using sandbags? I'm really curious about what their logic will be for those. Sounds really cool.

Before getting to sandbags, I'll first make them use shields. The logic to use shields could be fairly straightforward to add, so that the ones who have a shield, would check if there's enough empty uncovered space in the area between the bot himself and his enemy, added with some checks if there's at least some other fellow soldiers nearby which could use more cover, and with some probability and randomized willingness, the bot could decide to switch to shield, pick a random position between them and the enemy within some reasonable range, walk there pointing the shield at the enemy, crouch at the position and stay there. From there he might continue using the shield for a given time or until he loses sight/alertness to enemies, or if he runs out of fellows to protect.

This would automatically draw some of the other fellows to use this shield because it's unoccupied cover, much like they do when a player crouches with a shield. Given large enough open space and enough soldiers with shields, this could actually lead to a bit of chain so that if they manage to get behind the new shield, someone else there might realize there's once again enough uncovered empty space, enough soldiers, so he might decide they need another shield up front, and so on.

I have no idea if that'll work, but I'm eager to get it under way and testing.

More on topic about sandbags, I'm not entirely sure what the logic will be. They could, for example, while determining areas where a shield would be useful, mark them down and consider adding sandbags at same positions with appropriate directions, when the area is not under immediate fighting.

They could of course be made to try to deploy a cover while fighting, with logic much like with shield, just without the part of walking forwards but perhaps more sidewards and not that far.

Further idea could be that if your squad would have shields or sandbags, visualized similarly as the medic presence is, you'd have the ability to command shield or cover deployment at specific spot, but that can get easily out of hand as a feature if it involves a UI. We're starting to get rather full with keys so adding another key certainly isn't an option. We do have the squad modifier key though which sounds tempting for something like this.


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 Post subject: Re: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:11 am
Posts: 46
Wow, thank you for the quick and detailed reply. I love the amount of thought and effort you're putting into the AI for this game.

The Humvees aren't a big deal; I was just curious. Of course I'm all for the AI doing everything the player does, but in some cases I suppose it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to call in a drop and it could lead to some undesirable scenarios. With that said, on a rather large map if a group of AI were nowhere near a vehicle but needed to get to the other side, it might make sense to call in a vehicle drop to get there faster. Would have to calculate the time for the drop + driving versus just running, I guess.

Shield use - yes! I forgot about shields but that'll be great to see AI soldiers using them. I would definitely prefer them to use shields and sandbags on their own rather than having to order them to do so. Having to give commands just seems to run counter to the current pace of RWR and the idea of being a tiny soldier in a big war. It makes more sense (to me at least) to have limited command over what others are doing, and in some cases even feel like you need to follow the orders of a high level AI soldier.

Thanks again for the reply. I'll be gifting this thing to people like crazy once it hits Steam.

Edit: oh, and while I'm being unreasonable and asking so many questions and making all of these suggestions, here's one I think you've already addressed but may or may not have altered your perspective on: Is CTF something in the cards for the final release? I know the philosophy was that collecting/delivering items was kind of like this, but the more I play the less I see the similarity between the two. There is a franticness to CTF that I don't find with delivering items. RWR is ideally set up for crazy, frantic CTF scenarios - you go in with a fast little jeep, someone jumps out and grabs the flag, you're racing back to your base with the enemy chasing you with jeeps, tanks, etc. Ok, I'll stop, but it would be cool...


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 Post subject: Re: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Posts: 1847
General Chaos wrote:
Edit: oh, and while I'm being unreasonable and asking so many questions and making all of these suggestions, here's one I think you've already addressed but may or may not have altered your perspective on: Is CTF something in the cards for the final release? I know the philosophy was that collecting/delivering items was kind of like this, but the more I play the less I see the similarity between the two. There is a franticness to CTF that I don't find with delivering items. RWR is ideally set up for crazy, frantic CTF scenarios - you go in with a fast little jeep, someone jumps out and grabs the flag, you're racing back to your base with the enemy chasing you with jeeps, tanks, etc. Ok, I'll stop, but it would be cool...


It's possible some more effort will be done there in scope of 1.0. For a player-lead CTF mode in online, it would already be possible to set up with e.g. hitboxes and equipment/backpack inspection for score triggering, but AI wanting to locate an item and deliver it to a certain spot is the missing part of doing it well without player intervention.

I came up with some related ideas while playing campaign recently that AI could take part of looting as well, at least to a degree. For example when an enemy kills you and you drop your valuables, the enemies could try to get your stuff; it would at least make the items appear more valuable as they would apparently hold value to someone else too than just you, they could do a bit of value evaluation so that they'd move to get a very valuable item risking their life (much like when you order them "quickly!"). Of course it would be a major pain in the ass should they get your stuff and leave the place, but hopefully for the most parts they'd stay there fighting so you'd have your chance to get your stuff back. It could also lead to funny surprises that oh look, this guy had all my cigs and whiskey.

Of course that'll have some side effects that need to be handled, e.g. that your fellow AI would mostly prefer you to take any valuables lying around, so that you wouldn't have to race them for loot.

If nothing else, that feature would introduce the first step of item based CTF, the ability that bots would be drawn to some items to go pick them up. The missing part would be to make the item carrier run / drive towards something because he's got that item, I'd have a few ideas how to wire that up too.

There's also a new objective idea lying around, which would be based on a high value vehicle being dropped at a random / one of predefined places around the map somewhere where fighting normally doesn't take place, and all factions are made aware of the drop. The objective would be to get there and deliver the vehicle back home. It was initially planned out so that enemy AI would have just protectors set for the vehicle, which practically just means that their commander sents that many soldiers near the vehicle and they'll fight when needed. This way the vehicle would work as an attraction point for fighting, but the enemy wouldn't really realize to drive the vehicle anywhere as they wouldn't know exactly where to take it.

That idea might be eventually extended to make the enemy try "to play the objective" if the objective plays out well, but obviously most of the time it is more about getting player to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Quote:
Hmm, haven't at least thought that they would. The vehicle drops have been considered to be just player assisting features


Er...

...

Why?


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 Post subject: Re: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Lusketrollet wrote:
Quote:
Hmm, haven't at least thought that they would. The vehicle drops have been considered to be just player assisting features


Er...

...

Why?


There's no other way to obtain the Humvee but the drop which makes it a reward item. Tank drop would be ideally a "special" tank, but we don't have that right now. Seeing enemies or fellows use the reward items would make them more common than special.


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 Post subject: Re: Beta 0.93
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:11 am
Posts: 46
Great thoughts on the objectives, valuable pick-ups. I think having the AI pick these up would, for me at least, make them indeed seem more valuable.

Section 8: Prejudice did a pretty good job of having the AI pursue dynamic mid-match objectives. For example, a mission to recover intel would randomly start, and one side would have to get a number of suitcases from the battlefield and bring them back to base, while the other side defended. Obviously I don't know the technical details of how the developers made the bots pursue these objectives, but they did. With the underlying team framework of RWR's AI, this would be even more interesting (I'm fairly sure Section 8's bots worked mostly independently except for healing one another).

If you manage to get some kind of functioning CTF or objective system in that the AI can participate in, I will seriously donate a large sum (to me at least) of money to you. I like multiplayer but I've always wanted to just pick up a single player game like this and do some crazy CTF.

At the risk of redundancy, thanks once again for the thoughtful reply.


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