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Thoughts on the Inventory system?
Perfect as it is 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Needs improvement 75%  75%  [ 12 ]
Absolutely dislike it 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Prefer having no inventory 19%  19%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 16
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:30 pm 
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As of 0.85, the devs added an inventory system. I want to ask, what do you feel about it and why?

Copy-pasted from the 0.85 release thread
firearrows wrote:
the inventory system felt clunky at first, but I got used to it in a short time. Everything else works as well. Can I suggest using double click to use weapons and grenades in the inventory? dragging everything feels slow, and is the only aspect I didn't like.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:28 am 
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The inventory system isn't final yet, there will be improvements for sure but you always have to start with something :)
But remember, the backpack isn't meant to make you able to swap your weapons in no time middle in a battle like some other games where you just have to press a button to instantly swap your weapon.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:11 am 
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Backpack in 0.85 may seem like a device which allows you to carry quite a lot of weapons, which you can swap between fairly fast, only penalty is the reload that takes place when changing equipment. Reloading of course doesn't have any effect when you swap grenades and bazookas so in 0.85 you can indeed carry around a lot more firepower than previously.

This isn't how it's going to stay. We still want you to focus on using the weapon you have usable in your equipment and not constantly switch it to something else from your backpack depending on the situation on the battlefield - unless you go improvising and switch between weapons by picking them up on ground quickly with possibility of losing your favored weapon.

The other demand we want to achieve with the inventory system is that you can indeed carry other weapon(s) for the primary purpose of delivering the weapon to stash / somewhere else, as it can be a rare weapon you can't yet use but what you will want to use when you can (related to Invasion mode only), it can be part of an objective (Invasion mode mostly) or you can use it as merchandise.

The design trick is then how to nerf things so that you don't want to carry around lot of different weapons for the purpose of being that Swiss army knife we don't want you to be.
* Slow down motion from carry weight?
* Decrease agility from carry weight, unable to climb, prone, that sort of thing?
* Tilt the kill probabilities against you?
* Slowing down interaction with the backpack by having to watch the soldier do a backpack animation for 10s is definitely effective but .. seriously?
* Make the player want to prefer using the backpack for something more important to carry in battle than lots of different weapons, and when going into "let's get this stuff delivered" state, make the player able to throw out that other stuff to make room for more weapons? Hmm.. ammo? You'd want to have lots of mags (lightweight) for your primary weapon in your backpack when you go to a fight, but when you come back from the fight, you don't have a justification problem throwing away the mags (cheap) to make room for weapons (expensive) and other valued merchandise
* Don't allow putting weapons into backpack, but allow carrying several weapons directly in hands, being unable to shoot with any of them unless all are dropped, making them scattered around a bit? Once again "running with rifles" completely changed the meaning behind those words :lol: You'd trade off ability to shoot with carrying good merchandise, even visibly putting you into carrying mode

And so forth. Suggestions are welcome!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Generally speaking I have no issues with the inventory system. I like that it requires some time to drag the gun into your equipment slot and then that there's a brief switching delay. This makes it fairly impossible to switch "on the fly" in a heavy fire fight, which is the way it should be.

Apart from this the encumbrance idea you mention sounds really good but I'm curious about how you would balance that with AI soldiers. Specifically, would some of them also have a heavier load and be slower, and if so, what advantage would an AI soldier gain from carrying multiple weapons? Wouldn't they have to be programmed to know what situations called for what weapons? I suppose they do this with rockets and vehicles, so maybe it's possible. Alternatively, perhaps the AI would just carry a lot of grenades, med kits, flashbangs, etc.

Another idea might be to have the "weight" of the pack impact whether or not you can swim. It seems unlikely that you'd be swimming with 200lbs of equipment strapped to your back.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:25 pm 
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General Chaos wrote:
Generally speaking I have no issues with the inventory system. I like that it requires some time to drag the gun into your equipment slot and then that there's a brief switching delay. This makes it fairly impossible to switch "on the fly" in a heavy fire fight, which is the way it should be.

Apart from this the encumbrance idea you mention sounds really good but I'm curious about how you would balance that with AI soldiers. Specifically, would some of them also have a heavier load and be slower, and if so, what advantage would an AI soldier gain from carrying multiple weapons? Wouldn't they have to be programmed to know what situations called for what weapons? I suppose they do this with rockets and vehicles, so maybe it's possible. Alternatively, perhaps the AI would just carry a lot of grenades, med kits, flashbangs, etc.

Another idea might be to have the "weight" of the pack impact whether or not you can swim. It seems unlikely that you'd be swimming with 200lbs of equipment strapped to your back.


Without making a statement if it will still be possible to pull out several primary weapons out of backpack like in 0.85, I think AI could still continue to ignore inventory for the most parts, to focus on carrying and using one primary weapon. As such, AI could be thought to prefer playing in a certain class / definite role. Nothing prevents the players from doing the same of course, and there should be benefits to this approach. If AI was to use inventory extensively, you'd have to outrun them when looting stuff too :)

Prohibiting swimming would be a good addition to the agility modifiers when carrying more than you mostly should.

One related note to the variation of inventory concept, where carrying extra stuff (as in, any stuff in the current backpack) would make you not able to shoot, would be that with some other changes, it could be used as VIP-item-delivery mechanic. As the "cargo guy" is defenseless himself, others would have to protect him. Maybe keeping him safe and enabling him to get the cargo to the "target" without getting harmed would reward everyone nearby in some way. What the cargo and reward are are completely open for definition.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:19 pm 
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VIP escorts would definitely be cool. Even more so if actually getting this person to the goal would make use of their cargo to help the team. For example, you manage to get a guy carrying several mortars in his pack back to your base and then you team gets free mortar strikes for 30 seconds or something.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:20 pm 
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Obviously there are still alot of changes coming to this new system. I totally understand making the inventory more about being able to carry more gear, yet not allowing for quick switch in combat. The idea of having to get into position and then set your load out makes sense. The invested effort in setting up tactics is good, and keeps it from becoming a 'run and gun arena game'. My earlier suggestion in agreement with the other fellow is simply for a little qucik click for grenades specifically, although ofcourse you can as before simply pick up the same grenade you have in use right off the ground to resupply easily. It just seems that grenades would be a bit easier to switch out, and it's the farthest inventory slot from loot-slot yet usually consists of one or two grenades only. Or is it to help keep people focused more on playing one specific loadout type such as with the guns and over-all gear quantity instead of just switching constantly?

Oh, and when trying to pick up some gear, it seemed easy to accidently nudge it while opening inventory so it's no longer possible to pick it up and drop it in your bag with out closing window, and trying to get a hair closer. It wasn't everytime. But it did seem to happen often, and unexpectedly. To the point of being comical some times. It felt as though it needs just a little bigger radius on the loot/inventory register area when the item is on the ground (or what ever you would call that).

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:48 pm 
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The whole layout in the inventory UI will very likely go through some changes, as like you mentioned dragging such a long way horizontally to equip something is tedious, and while actually equipping stuff from ground/backpack could be made more slower in the game to penalize equipment juggling, the UI shouldn't be the reason why it's so slow to achieve.

The other point is very true too, the radius of sniffing the items nearby the soldier is a bit too small. Also, items that are near the character should never vanish from the world as an item cleanup measure. I've countless times already started to drag an item in the UI only to see the icon and the item disappear for being out in the world for too long. Not to mention all the other usability issues I've got in mind.. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:23 am 
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pasik wrote:
The other point is very true too, the radius of sniffing the items nearby the soldier is a bit too small. Also, items that are near the character should never vanish from the world as an item cleanup measure. I've countless times already started to drag an item in the UI only to see the icon and the item disappear for being out in the world for too long. Not to mention all the other usability issues I've got in mind.. :)



Yeah okay, I was wondering about the "weapon clean-up" because it does seem way more frequent. To the point of almost any stash that hasn't just fallen from a box tends to dissappear before being able to pick up.

Also, sometimes when equipping an item into equipped-slots, either from backpack or ground, it seems if you do it to quickly the icon for the equipment slots stays onscreen after the inventory closes.
It can be easily reset by just opening the inventory again. Seems to fix it for now.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:28 pm 
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pasik wrote:
The whole layout in the inventory UI will very likely go through some changes, as like you mentioned dragging such a long way horizontally to equip something is tedious, and while actually equipping stuff from ground/backpack could be made more slower in the game to penalize equipment juggling, the UI shouldn't be the reason why it's so slow to achieve.

The other point is very true too, the radius of sniffing the items nearby the soldier is a bit too small. Also, items that are near the character should never vanish from the world as an item cleanup measure. I've countless times already started to drag an item in the UI only to see the icon and the item disappear for being out in the world for too long. Not to mention all the other usability issues I've got in mind.. :)


Instead of adding a weight system, only allow a player a weapon in his hands and a weapon in his backpack. Works better and with weight there'd still be people running around with three weapons or more :/


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